Carbon Capture and Storage (CCS) a promising technology that can help mitigating carbon footprint

Ramanathan Menon | Aug 24, 2010

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Carbon Capture and Storage (CCS) is a promising technology that could play a major role in the management of worldwide greenhouse gas emissions (GHG) released into the atmosphere -- the largest of which is carbon dioxide (CO2).

By integrating three individual technologies the oil and gas industry has used for decades -- capture, transportation and storage -- CCS could enable power plants and industrial facilities to achieve meaningful management of GHG, while maintaining their ability to produce much-needed energy and other products.

The United Nations Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (UNIPCC) estimates that these large facilities -- especially power generation plants -- account for as much as 60% of the world's total fossil fuel CO2 emissions. CCS technology can help address these emissions by (a) Separating CO2 from the flue gas (exhaust) from coal-fired power generation or combustion sources at other industrial facilities (b) Compressing the CO2 to reduce its volume and transporting it via pipeline to a storage site (c) Finally, injecting the CO2 into underground geologic formations, such as saline aquifers, depleted oil or gas reservoirs, or deep coal beds, where it can be stored indefinitely.

Coal-fired power plants present unique challenges for CO2 capture. First is size. While several CO2 capture technologies are currently operating on a scale of tens to hundreds of tons of CO2 captured per day, even a relatively small power plant of 200 megawatts (MW) would produce almost 5,000 tons per day at 90% capture. Second is the impact of impurities found in coal flue gas which are not found in other more consistent flue gas streams, such as those from natural gas combustion or from some chemical processes. Third is the challenge of cost. In a small application, the impact of a high cost per ton of CO2 captured may not have a major impact on the economics of the base process. However, because of the quantity of CO2 produced in coal combustion and the narrow margins that often exist in the electrical generating business, an energy-intensive CO2 removal process can significantly affect the economics of a power plant.

After the CO2 is removed from the flue gas stream, it must be compressed for transport and injected underground for long-term storage (sequestration). The total effort to capture and sequester CO2 can increase the cost of electricity from coal-fired power plants by 50-80%. Therefore, the challenge is not only to commercially demonstrate CCS on the scale required, but also to develop a more economical approach to CO2 capture for conventional coal-fired electric power plants.

For more than 30 years, Exxon Mobil engineers and scientists have researched, developed and applied technologies that could play a role in making CCS viable in commercial applications. For example, their patented 'Controlled Freeze Zone' technology is a single-step process that could more efficiently separate CO2 and other impurities from a natural gas stream. It has the potential to make CCS more affordable.

The earth has a fever that it just can't shake. Global CO2 emissions are currently at 4.4 tons per capita. Climatologists think that this number must be cut in half by 2050 to keep CO2 levels in the atmosphere around 470 ppm (parts per million) and therefore to limit the temperature to about 2°C.

Scientific evidence gathered by international researchers over the past several decades has increasingly linked excessive greenhouse gas (GHG) emissions -- especially those of carbon dioxide (C02) -- with global climate change. The paradox facing the world community is the primary source of CO2 emissions, fossil fuels (coal, oil and natural gas), also provide the vast majority of energy, especially electricity, needed to help power both developed and developing economies. Since 1971, abundant fossil fuels have generated, on average, two-thirds of the world's total electricity, and nearly 40% of this total has come from coal, according to the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development (OECD).

According to a large part of the scientific community, emissions produced by man are increasing the concentration of greenhouse gas in the atmosphere, reinforcing the natural greenhouse effect, in this way causing an increase in the Earth's average temperature. Starting in 1750, the concentration of CO2 in the atmosphere has increased by more than 30% (from approximately 280 ppm to approximately 380 ppm), after having been essentially stable (at levels inferior to 280 ppm) for approximately 10 thousand years.

The scientific community has launched several alarms regarding the danger of climate change with reference to the increase in the sea level, the impact on water resources and biodiversity, the decrease of the glaciers and desertification. Scenarios of an increase in greenhouse gas emissions could result in even more dramatic consequences. It is estimated that if over the next few years, greenhouse gases are not significantly decreased; by 2050 the concentration of CO2 alone could increase by 15-30% with respect to 2005 levels. In this case, the temperature could increase on average by approximately 3°C with respect to the pre-industrial era. A temperature increase of this type could result in an average increase of sea levels of between 0.6 to 1.9 meters, simply due to the effect of the warming of the oceans.

Image 1: Pic. CCS Technology



Experts from the UNIPCC to the IEA (International Energy Agency) have identified carbon capture and storage as a necessary technology to combat climate change.

Mountaineer in the U.S. represents the first small-scale demonstration project to integrate both carbon capture and storage, and American Electric Power may receive $334 million in federal funds to scale up the project to capture 20% of the plant's CO2 emissions. The proposed plant would first turn coal into gas, and the gas combusted to spin a turbine to produce electricity. The result of this technology -- known as integrated gasification combined cycle (IGCC) -- is expected to be the removal of roughly 90% of the CO2 and almost all of the sulfur dioxide and nitrogen oxide from the power plant's emissions. Mountaineer has captured and stored more than 3,000 metric tons of CO2 in the Copper Ridge dolomite formation since Oct. 1, 2009 and the company aims to capture as much as 100,000 metric tons a year in the future. "As with any new technology, it's had its ups and downs," says Gary Spitznogle, the project's manager at AEP.

The U.S. Department of Energy estimates that such an IGCC plant would produce electricity at a cost of $103 per megawatt-hour, compared to just $63 per megawatt hour for a pulverized coal-fired power plant without CO2 capture. That math would change if the U.S. Congress one day places a price on carbon dioxide. Various U.S. national laboratories and research universities -- as well as the companies commercializing the technology -- are striving to reduce that cost further, to as low as just $10 per metric ton of CO2 captured, says CO2 sequestration project leader Rajesh Pawar of Los Alamos National Laboratory in New Mexico.

Despite the costs, utilities are moving forward with carbon capture and storage at existing and new coal-fired power plants. The primary driver seems to be the reality of governments eventually placing a cost on carbon dioxide emissions, both in the U.S. and throughout the world.

The U.S. Company Duke Energy has partnered with China's Huaneng Group to develop carbon capture and storage technology and is considering a plan to capture 18% of the CO2 from its planned 630 megawatt, $2.35 billion IGCC plant in Edwardsport, Ind.

The Chinese government is partnering with its largest coal supplier, Australia, to build several demonstration projects, including one in Beijing that uses an amine scrubber to capture CO2 from a power plant that produces both heat and electricity. And ground has been broken on China's version of FutureGen, dubbed GreenGen. The 650-megawatt, IGCC power plant is now under construction and could begin storing CO2 in depleted oil fields near the city of Tianjin as soon as 2015.

Oklahoma-based Tenaska aims to build a $3.5 billion IGCC power plant in Taylorsville, Ill. that would capture 50 % of its CO2 emissions, and the Erora Group is planning a similar power plant in Henderson County, Ky. Existing power plants are also getting into the act, including the Southern Company, which plans to add its own chemistry set -- known as amine scrubbers, which employ a different compound to capture the CO2 -- to a power plant near Mobile, Ala.

CCS projects also are moving ahead in Europe. In the vineyards of Jurancon in southeastern France, a project to integrate both CO2 capture and storage is now complete. Recently, an old oil-fired boiler there was converted to burn natural gas in pure oxygen -- so-called oxyfuel -- and thereby create a relatively pure stream of CO2 that can be siphoned off and stored. The Lacq project will transport roughly 60,000 metric tons of CO2 per year 17 miles to a depleted natural gas field for storage.

The engineering firm, Alstom, which supplied the technology at Lacq, has installed an oxyfuel boiler for a coal-fired power plant in Germany, known as Schwarze Pumpe. That plant also demonstrates, however, one of the main challenges of carbon capture and storage: acceptance from the people who would have to live over the stored CO2. Plans to store the greenhouse gas from Schwarze Pumpe in a nearby natural gas field have foundered on resistance from the local government. A similar CO2 storage effort by Shell in the Netherlands has also been stopped by public resistance from the town of Barendrecht. Residents there fear a leak or declining property values as the ground deep beneath their feet literally fills up with CO2.

There are several pilot and demonstration projects currently proceeding in Canada as a means to understand the potential for a reduction in CO2 emissions using CCS technology. Among them is the IEA GHG Weyburn-Midale CO2 Monitoring and Storage Project. This project stands out as the world's first measurement, monitoring and verification program in connection with CO2 Enhanced Oil Recovery (EOR) operations. It is the planet's largest CO2 injection operation, and as of January 1, 2010 had 17 million tonnes of CO2 underground.

"Even with the most optimistic projections on renewables and nuclear, you still have 60% fossil fuels by 2030 with massive emissions," says Philippe Paelinck, director of CO2 business development at Alstom. "If CCS technology is not accepted by the public, we will not be able to arrive at the necessary levels of emissions -- and those are zero for the power sector by 2050."

After all, the coal-fired power plants already built or planned in just the first 10 years of the 21st century would end up emitting more carbon dioxide in the next 25 years -- 660 billion metric tons -- than the 524 billion metric tons that have been emitted since the dawn of the Industrial Age in 1751, notes George Peridas of the Natural Resources Defense Council. And the UNIPCC estimates that a properly selected storage site would safely stow away 99% of the CO2 generated by a coal-burning power plant for at least 1,000 years. But even if all that CO2 is captured and stored, coal will not be entirely clean, whether because of the impacts of the mountaintop removal mining that provides some of the fuel or the toxic ash that burning coal leaves behind.

With a rising population linked to an increased energy demand, India is expected to become one of the top three CO2 emitters in the world by 2030; it is currently ranked sixth. Out of the country's present installed electricity generation capacity of around 140GW, roughly 70% is generated by thermal power plants, mostly from coal. This capacity is likely to be increased significantly in the next 10-20 years; India has plans to upgrade and extend its current fleet of power plants by investing in 13 more efficient coal-fired Ultra-Mega Power Plants (UMPPs), which would entail a further 52GW of installed capacity coming on line starting in 2012.

In India, now there is a lively debate about whether CCS should be deployed in the country. It is expected that coal will play a significant role in providing energy and electricity in India until 2050, at least, despite measures to significantly increase the role of other energy sources. Although CCS is not seen as an immediate priority for Indian Government or industry, survey respondents do expect it to become more important in the future, particularly for industry. Thus, it is appropriate to consider whether CCS is a technically feasible option for India and, if so, whether and when it should be used?

Although there are some significant challenges, it seems likely that introducing CO2 capture at Indian power plants could be technically feasible especially in locations where it is considered appropriate to apply 'capture ready' concepts for new build plants before CCS is deployed. Identifying both suitable storage sites and routes for transporting captured CO2 safely to these sites also requires careful consideration. One important factor in shaping views on whether CCS is an appropriate option for India is the proposed timing of any deployment of possible projects. In particular, survey respondents typically suggest that it is necessary for developed countries to demonstrate CCS at commercial scale before any commercial-scale CCS projects in India are considered.

In fact, most survey respondents suggested that any consideration of deployment of CCS in India should be within an appropriate international framework, including measures for knowledge-sharing and technology-transfer that consider local conditions carefully. The importance of establishing reasonable methods to help with early engagement on CCS between India and developed countries was also noted by some respondents. For example, one respondent suggested that consideration should be given to establishing local knowledge/training centers within India. Survey respondents also suggested that it was reasonable for developed country governments to contribute to financing of both initial projects and wider deployment of CCS in India. This could partly be through international finance institutions such as the World Bank, the International Monetary Fund and the Asian Development Bank.

To conclude, advanced CCS technologies are innovative and transformational; they are aimed at providing cost-competitive technology options for controlling C02 emissions and enabling the continued use of fossil fuels in a carbon-constrained world. They can help provide policymakers the basis for meeting their national economic, energy, and environmental needs. They will be most effectively utilized as part of a portfolio response to CO2 emission mitigation that includes wider use of renewable and nuclear energy and increased energy efficiencies. Given current projections regarding atmospheric C02 buildup and climatic temperature increases, the global objective should be to begin large-scale commercial deployment within the next decade, and in the meantime focusing an unprecedented international level of cooperation and research toward this goal.

The groundwork has already been established for worldwide cooperation and collaboration; progress has been made, but there is still much to do.

Comments

Heat Rate
BTU/kWh

Puliverized Coal (super) 8,990
IGCC 8,220
Pulverized Coal CCS (super) 12,440
IGCC CSS 10,830

Sources: PNM foil and EPRI

http://home.comcast.net/~bpayne37/eprishumard/eprishumard.htm#specker

Thanks for compiling these heat rates Bill. I'll make myself a copy. (I don't think I have ever seen a message with more ACRONYMS than words before.)

The premise of "zero" emissions is not logical for a gas that is not a pollutant, is produced naturally and is absolutely vital for life to survive. Further, the jury remains out on the magnitude of the issue. "Deeming" it a problem may work for the environmental community, but factual analysis is still underway.

The wisdom of sequestering massive quantities of CO2 remains uncertain, with the "law-of-unexpected-consequences" lurking on the horizon.

In my opinion, a sounder approach is to increase the efficiency of power generation and energy use while deploying technologies that can economically avoid or minimize CO2 creation. Carbon capture goes in the completely other direction by significantly decreasing power plant efficiency and significantly increasing costs.

I am curious about the volumes involved in disposing of CO2 produced by the burning of coal. So I have made one of my crude calculations.

I took coal production (usage) which rises as we speak at 6 billion metric tons per year, or 1.32 X 10^13 pounds per year. If we assume coal is 85% carbon this will produce 4.11 X 10^13 pounds as CO2.

CO2 critical pressure is 1071 psia so we will almost certainly compress it into the super critical range. I don’t know how to rigorously calculate the density of CO2 above the critical pressure so I cheated and found its density at 150 atmospheres to be 0.8496 g/l online. This corresponds to 53 #/ft^3.

The volume of CO2 we need to sequester is about 4.11 X 10^13/53 = 7.75X10^11 ft^3/year.

The density of coal varies so I had to select a value. I chose 84 #/ft^3 (sp, gr. of 1.35).

Ergo the volume of coal mined is about 1.32 X 10^13/84 = 1.57 X 10^11 = 1.57 X 10^11 ft^3 per year.

Which says the CO2 we need to sequester has a volume 5 times that of the coal we mined this year? It’s much worse because I suspect that more coal is produced from open pit (open cast) mines than shaft mines.

(I would be very grateful to anyone who finds my slide rule estimates grossly in error.)

"If CCS technology is not accepted by the public, we will not be able to arrive at the necessary levels of emissions -- and those are zero for the power sector by 2050."

There are a lot of numbers in the above post, but they are not related to each other sufficiently to permit further analysis. The quote reproduced immediately above from the post identifies zero CO2 emissions from the power sector by 2050 as the necessary levels.

NETL talks about a goal of 90+%, but not 100% removal. Also, the cost per kWh of CO2 removal increases as the percentage removal increases, both because the amount of CO2 removed increases and because the cost per ton of removal increases as the percentage of CO2 removed increases. The marginal cost of removal of the last ton of CO2 from a plant, if technically achievable, would be expected to be very high.

Placing a price on CO2 emissions would add to the overall cost of reducing CO2 emissions; and, thus, to the increase in power prices. Depending on how the revenue generated by putting the price on carbon was spent, it might contribute nothing to the emissions reduction task.

The IEA has estimated the investment required to reduce global CO2 emissions by 50% by 2050 at $45 trillion in addition to a "business as usual" investment requirement. There is growing acknowledgement, in the environmental community, that all anthropogenic carbon emissions must cease to stabilize atmospheric CO2 concentrations at whatever level. There is also growing acknowledgement that 350 ppm is the maximum safe, long term CO2 concentration in the atmosphere. Achieving this concentration would require active removal of CO2 from the atmosphere, once additions of incremental anthropogenic CO2 ceased. Obviously, the higher the atmospheric concentration of CO2 when stabilization is achieved, the greater the investment and operating costs required to remove the excess CO2 from the atmosphere.

Also, as Don has championed here, there is growing acknowledgement of the need to reduce population to achieve sustainability. I have recently seen numbers as low as <1 billion global population as a "wish", although a plan which would turn that wish into a goal has yet to emerge, at least publicly. I guess that is relatively easy to understand.

UN FAO has estimated that ~18% of global GHG emissions are the result of animal husbandry. Therefore, it would appear that halting climate change would also require global adoption of veganism.

It is long past time for the environmental community to "open the kimono" and expose the complete picture of the steps required to halt anthropogenically-induced global climate change. It is also understandable why it has not done so; and, likely will not do so anytime soon. Better to get the global community onto the "slippery slope" before exposing the conditions at the bottom of the slope.

I think CCR ( Carbon Capture Recirculation ) is a much nicer option than CCS.
Why dont use the CO2 as a feed stock for production of methanol with hydrogen that is produced with thermal assisted parabolic troughs

Peter, any estimate of the $/gal. for that methanol, without subsidy?

I would suggest that permanent sequestration of CO2 makes more sense than permanent sequestration of "spent nuclear fuel" which still contains most of its initial fuel value,.

Also, assuming the CO2 is pumped into abandoned gas wells, for example, it could be recovered if the process economics became favorable at some future time.

Ed

If we were to squeeze the air and gas out of an average human we would get about 2 cubic feet of stuff. So the volume of all of us on the planet today is about 7x10^9x2 = 1.4x10^10 cubic feet. That volume would fit in a cubical tank about 0.456 miles on a side.

If my estimate of what we would have to deal with if we captured just the CO2 from coal for one year we would need to handle 7.75x10^11 cubic feet of super critical compressed CO2 is valid then the "tank" to hold all of humanity need be only about 2% the size of just one year of compressed CO2.

By extracting 23 x10^12 SCF of natural gas per year in the US, how much void does this create for sequestering CO2 permanently at 150 atmospheres. About 1.54x10^11 cubic feet.

I have no data base. My math is primitive. Yet I see no sophisticated numbers.

Don,

Picky, picky, picky! You've got to stop letting the nitty-gritty details interfere with the grand vision.

It's just like cleaning up your room when you were a kin. (Remember?) All of that carbon came from underground. All we need to do is put it all back where it belongs.

Ed :-)

"kin" should have been "kid" above

If I could type, I could be really dangerous.

Ed, If we want to hide our CO2 the first thing we need to do is find a bigger planet. (Like in a Cajun cook book, first you make a roux.)

Quick and dirty calculation shows that we need a hole over five times as big as the one we got the coal outta. (12 pounds of carbon + 32 pounds of oxygen makes 44 pounds of CO2. Honest!) Say coal weighs 84 pounds per cubic foot and say our compressed super critical C02 weighs 53 #/cubic foot, then our carbon volume has swelled up by a ratio of 5.8 to 1. i.e. 44/12 x 84/53 = 5.8.

Of course we would want to tidy up the numbers. We could do this while finding a larger convenient planet.

We need a void of 5.3 cubic miles to hold the coal-produced CO2 during one year.

But wait! If we capture CO2 we will need to mine and burn, what?, about 40% more coal to net the same electricity? Maybe we would need two more planets.

Don,

A cold planet would help; or, one with a predominantly CO2 atmosphere already.

Any candidates?

Ed

Ed, about every hour we could accelerate a rocket loaded with CO2 to earth's escape velocity (25,000 mph, 1.5 times orbital velocity). From then on we could control release of CO2 through propulsion jets and send it anywhere we want. I wonder if sent to the sun under the sun's conditions CO2 would be reduced to carbon atoms? Or are there places so cold to snow solid CO2? Ski resorts on a moon of Jupiter? Get in on the ground floor in the coming CO2 economy.

Peter,
In order to turn the CO2 into methanol, hydrogen is required. That could be done by converting the CO2 into CO and hydrogen added. The hydrogen can be created by reacting some of the CO with steam, however, CO2 is also created. I vaguely recall a reaction that in the presence of a catalyst breaks the CO2 down into CO, but as I recall, the process is pretty exotic and requires a lot of energy. CO2 is does not easily break down, although plant do it on a regular basis.

Not exactly simple chemistry nor inexpensive.

Making hydrocarbon (or alcohols, Peter) fuels from CO2 or hydrogen from water are, and always will be, energy sinks, not energy supply. No matter how clever the chemistry or catalysis. There are no end runs around the Laws of thermodynamics.

Water and CO2 are at the bottom of the thermodynamic hill. It takes more energy to take them back up the hill than they can return coming back down the hill. All irreversibility is gone forever.

Schemes to recycle CO2 or water for fuel are, no matter how circuitous, perpetual motion schemes. Alas, they will always require more energy IN than energy OUT.

Wellll,,, plants do it pretty neatly Don, using energy from the sun to overcome the thermodynamic barriers. But I agree in general your points. And the smartest, simplest and cheapest means of sequestering carbon is obviously to leave the coal in the ground and replace the energy with solar thermal generation. A few large corporations have some problems with that though.

... plants do it pretty neatly Don, using energy from the sun to overcome the thermodynamic barriers ...

In the northern hemisphere summer. Then in the northern hemisphere winter, they let it all slip back into the atmosphere, cf. the Keeling Curve.

Menon's article is an aggressive sharing of ignorance, as are all the comments about the unmanageable volume of fluid CO2. They set up and knock down a strawman. This is true because of this.

Note that the capture of atmospheric CO2 by the mentioned minerals is thermodynamically favoured. It releases heat and increases entropy. All that we must do is catalyse it.

How shall the car gain nuclear cachet?

Coal is stored solar energy. And photosynthesis is the process of making sugars (carboniferous fuel) that green plants know how to do - albeit very inefficiently, but which we don't know how to do.

It is utter nonsense to say "just leave the coal in the ground." Unless we were playing a game where we can re-deal and start over, we have to start from present condition, which is 7 billion people utterly and foreseeable dependent on fossil fuels. Seven billion people who will burn more coal tomorrow than today, as they have for hundreds of years and will into the predictable future. Every day it gets worse.

(Incidentally, what are these "thermodynamic barriers?")

I was referring to your "end runs around the Laws of thermodynamics". Your statement implies that man-made energy must be put into any process from which useful energy is extracted. Ignores the collection of solar energy.

And the more direct solar-derived (thermal and PV) and nuclear energy we can generate, the more coal we can leave in the ground. Seems a very simple truth.

Glen, you are remarkably adept at attributing to me what I never said. You do it repeatedly and slyly. Behold, we have a modern Sophist who would rather pursue the advancement of his agenda than the truth.

In your comments of 9/10/10 in your first sentence you refer to my "end runs around thermodynamics". What I have said, and have said often, is that there are no end runs around thermodynamics.

In your second sentence you refer to my use of "man-made energy." According to the "Law of Conservation of Energy" which (at least used to be) found within the first few pages of most all science texts says energy can neither be created nor destroyed, only converted from one form to another. We make energy balances when examining any process, chemical reaction, or engine performance, etc. If man could create or destroy energy a heat balance would not make any sense. If energy IN does not equal energy OUT (accounting for change in inventory) we know we have made a mistake. Since there is no such thing as "man-made energy" I don't use the term.

In your third and last sentence you announce to all that I ignore the collection of solar energy. Just how did you get that idea?

Don and Len, please ignore each other and comment on my criticism of the article.

I have taken a very cursory look at the reference of Graham Cowen's re the use of the mineral olivine in reducing atmospheric CO2.

It has not been a salubrious start. = but as I say, my efforts have been quite cursory.

The article (and illustrative chemical reaction) say olivine is Mg2SO4. I have looked at several sources that give it as (Mg,Fe)2SiO4. Surely there are those who can assess the chemistry better than I.

In an earlier message I showed my arithmetic that calls for hiding 7.75x 10^11 cubic feet of Compressed CO2 per year. (I appealed for confirmation but got no response.) This was for only the CO2 from coal. 7.75x10^11/ 528o^3 = 5.27 cubic miles per year. This divided by 0.621^3 is 22 km^3/year , the units in the Dutch paper.

But the Dutch paper only calls for 7 km^3/ year to be disposed of, presumably for all annual added CO2, not just from coal.

Has anyone looked at my arithmetic? I am not in love with my numbers = has anyone done the arithmetic?- lest I am beating a dead horse.
.

Further to my message just above. (Re Olaf Schuiling article.)

I find both Mg2SiO4 and Fe2SiO4 are called olivine. The chemical reaction shown in the article and the stoichiometric used by the author are based on the Mg version.

As for the volume of olivine needed annually I can get numbers near the author’s numbers if I assume all the feed stock is Mg olivine. While olivine is common it is but one mineral making up basaltic and many igneous rocks. And I don’t know if the Fe version is effective, or as effective as the Mg version.

He says 140 g of olivine captures 176 g of CO2. The mol weight of the Mg version is 140, and 176 is the weight of 4CO2. He seems to be thinking the Mg version. Except to say the rock used will not be all Mg olivine the amount of rock to be mined, transported, crushed, pulverized and spread will be greater than calculated.

... the rock used will not be all Mg olivine the amount of rock to be mined, transported, crushed, pulverized and spread will be greater than calculated.


That's true. Olivine that is high in Mg2SiO4 is said to be high-forsterite, and if high in Fe2SiO4, it is fayalite-rich. The fayalite weathering involves the oxidation of iron from divalent to trivalent, and that is why olivine or peridotite mountains are rust-brown. (Peridotite is sometimes called dunite for this reason.)

More fayalite means more digging, because this rusting captures no CO2, but it speeds up weathering, and the pulverization energy per tonne can therefore, for a given particle lifetime, be less.

How shall the car gain nuclear cachet?

Graham, thanks for the additional information.

Just for the hell-of-it I did a quick and dirty calc about what this would actually look like.

Using only Mg olivine it would take an annual spreading of 1.5 inches over an area equal to the UK to react with the CO2 produced by our present yearly coal consumption, Well, not exactly. We have to account for the rock not being all Mg olivine. and we have to account that pulverized rock has a lower bulk density that the solid rock. Let's say about a 4 inch (10 cm) layer this year. Next year it will be more.

I suppose that must be true if the UK is annually burning several UK-centimetres of coal. Wikipedia says Great Britain, the island, has surface area 209331 square kilometres, so a UK-cm is 2.09 billion m^3.

That's 1700000000 tonnes of 1.25-g/mL coal packed 0.65.

How shall the car gain nuclear cachet?

I'm afraid I am permanently confused about the nomenclature of those two large islands, and a collection of small islands, which have been called many things in my lifetime. As a school boy (we never were called students, a far too pompous name for pupils) the British Empire, in red, dominated all the maps and globe always on display in my classrooms. Even then still thought of as the English Empire with coaling stations world wide to keep the English Navy supplied. Edward and cousins (Germans) trained together on H.M.S. ships. Edward had quite a new name, Windsor, only since 1917 from Saxe-Coburg. and Mountbatten from Battenberg. But I digress.

For my calculation above I used the area of the UK as given in my 2007 Almanac for "The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland" as 94,526 square miles. All of one big island and part of the other. I don't think I heard the name "UK" for the first half of my life?

I could have chosen Upper Volta at 105,841 square miles. But much less illustrative. Where the hell is Upper Volta? Nor did I want my example to give a depth of in millimeters or meters. My spelling checker rejects "coaling," as in coaling station. I have outlived the dictionary.

Alas, It is all about numbers. Just simple arithmetic: i.e. adding, subtracting, multiplying and dividing and powers and roots. Energy cares not a whit about anyone's sociology or poetry or notion of justice. A rose is a rose but a BTU is a BTU. What is dumber than an erection?

If one studies and becomes proficient in all the holy books what has he gained? Perhaps a liberal arts degree and a teaching position. The people who wrote this stuff thought the earth was flat.

The way I would do it is a little different, I think, from what Schuiling recommends. I'd convey a stream of 25-micron peridotite grains up into the sky so that the stream stagnated and dispersed about 5 km above the launch site, and the 5-km-altitude winds then take it where they're going..

Along with the grinding, this launching takes about 50 kJ per mole of CO2 that the grains will pull down, so it's energetically inexpensive compared to the capture methods whose existence is generally acknowledged by articles such as Menon's.

A 25-micron grain floats a long way before it lands, and it then is consumed by atmospheric CO2 in about 1 year. So the whole world's annual coal-derived CO2 won't be painting any particular small country evenly up to the edges and stopping. It's a good way to proceed if the consequences of leaving the CO2 up are serious.

You should do your calculation for 100 years' worth on the Sahara desert. I predict the accumulated carbonate layer will be less than a furlong thick. (Also don't forget the part in Schuiling's story where water washes the CO3 ions into the sea, and they become bicarbonate there.)

How shall the car gain nuclear cachet?

Don, I think your numbers are pretty good, except that only the "best" of coals is 85% carbon. A more usable average would be about 60%, so your volume calculation needs a little review. But you certainly are not off by an order of magnitude, or even a factor of 2.

It would seem to me that Herr Shuiling's theory could be tested out over a few years, using a few hectares of land, a few tens of thousands of dollars/euros in olivine ground to specification, and a few dozen graduate students to sample and monitor the progress of CO2 adsorption in the test area.

What are they waiting for??? In fact, I volunteer to carry out the research, as long as it is at and near the green sand (i.e. olivine) beach in Hawaii!

I would be a little surprised to see that it only takes a small fraction of a kilowatt-hour to create a couple of kilograms of olivine dust out of big chunky rocks, given that it has a Mohs hardness of 6.5 - 7, about the same as quartz, SiO2. The article claims a liter of Olivine dust to adsorb the CO2 from a liter of oil. A half liter of oil is the equivalent of a pound of coal, more or less, so let's say two pounds of coal per liter of olivine, which translates, roughly, to a cubic meter of olivine per ton of coal combusted. Five billion tons of coal mined per year, so five billion cubic meters of olivine dust per year to make a net zero for the year - that's around a cubic mile.

This article refers to a grinding energy of up to 100kwh/ton.
http://www.redorbit.com/news/science/229153/grinding_methods_to_enhance_the_reactivity_of_olivine/index.html

"The data indicate that reactivity increased most significantly as a result of size reduction. Large additional energy inputs in grinding, wet or dry, greatly affected surface area and crystallinity; such inputs in dry grinding caused cold welding and altered particle morphology. However, the additional energy applied did not improve reactivity concordantly. Energy inputs beyond 100 kWh/ton were not necessarily beneficial from the standpoint of improving conversion in the carbonation tests, and lower numbers were sufficient to achieve similar degrees of conversion."

About 2 to 2.5 tons of CO2 is emitted in the generation of a MWh of electricity.
At 100% efficiencty, 144 grams of Olivine adsorbs 88 grams of CO2, So IF a ton of olivine adsorbs 0.7 tons of CO2, then three tons or so is required to adsorb the CO2 required to generate a MWh of electricity. The energy penalty is up to about 30% (up to 300kwh per MWh gross generation), and thus massive power plants will have to be built near any significantly large olivine "mines" in order to dig up and convert the rock to usable dust.

Doesn't seem too practical...

Combining underground sequestration with olivine adsorption:
http://www.ldeo.columbia.edu/gpg/projects/carbon-sequestration

This is back to being much more energy intensive, in order to capture and liquify the CO2 first, and is estimated to cost an energy penalty of 25-33%. And the CO2 has to be transported to the appropriate sequestration site.

The energy penalties are huge in all cases...

Regards to all,
RWVesel

Wups, sorry for the numerical error above...

One MWh of electricity from coal generates 1-1.5 tons CO2, not 2-2.5 tons.
The energy penalty is then in the vicinity of 15%-20%, not the 30% I stated.

Still pretty large, and probably still impractical.

RWV